As he undertakes a world tour on the back of a number one album, Frank Turner sat down with Folk and Tumble and talked us through his most personal work to date.
FT: There are some weighty issues on the new album, your own drug issues, the pandemic, mental health, suicide, and transgender issues. The album is called ‘Hardcore’, because of the punk sound, but it might equally be called so because of the topics covered?
FT: Yeah, I think so. There is almost a parallel development between the sonics and the lyrical content of the record. Before the pandemic was a glimmer in anybody’s eye, I had a vague idea that I wanted to go for a slightly harder sound for this record. At the same time, I felt I wanted to go back to a more autobiographical/confessional approach, which is a thing I’ve done a lot of in the past. ‘Be More kind’ was more of a political record, and ‘No Man’s Land’ was quite specifically songs that weren’t about me. So I felt, I have enough clear water now to go back and talk about what I usually talk about. In the summer of 2019, we did a punk rock holiday festival in Slovenia, and I remember walking about, feeling really happy I was there, and just feeling I was at home. And that it might be nice to spend some time at home, having been on holiday as it were for two albums. So the lyrical content and the sonics, both of those directives were in place. I wrote 28 songs for this album, which is crazy for me, but I also rewrote and demoed in more depth and just sort of pushed those directives a little further every time.
FT: It’s a fantastic album. But it was the content and the confessional very personal nature of the songs that really hit home. It possibly sounds a bit daft with the punk sensibilities about it, but it harked back to the 70’s Singer-songwriter’s albums?
FT: Oh yeah, I’ll take that as a huge compliment
FT: With that in mind, did you ever consider doing it as an acoustic singer-songwriter album, with this one in particular?
FT: Yeah, although, not so much this one, It was definitely going to be a sonically more aggressive record. There is a bit of false memory about my career, but I have never released a completely acoustic record. There were drums all over my first album. But, having said that there is a part of me that thinks it may be fun to do a totally acoustic record, and whether that means doing like a downbeat country record almost. I love country music, Kris Kristofferson, and Merle Haggard. That could be fun, or do like a Chuck Ragan type of thing, so acoustic but aggressive. Both are possibilities on deck for me going forward.
FT: Live, Frank you been compared to Springsteen, and he has gone down that acoustic route too?
FT: Well that is a huge compliment. My point of entry to Springsteen was his more country, folky stuff, ‘Nebraska’ and ‘The Ghost of Tom Joad’ and ‘Devils and Dust’. Those were my first three, then sort of worked backward, and got into ‘Born to Run’ and his other albums.
FT: ‘Untainted Love’ addresses your own drug issues Frank, and I’m wondering about touring now? How different is touring now, without the drugs?
FT: Well, it’s interesting you should ask that question. I never really did drugs on tour . For the longest time, I had this balance that I only did drugs when I was off tour, and I wasn’t off tour that much, and therefore I didn’t do that many drugs. There was a period in my life when I had about 4 or 5 months off the road, and that was the longest time I had off the road, in like forever. My standard practice then was to go home and get trashed for three days, then leave and go on tour. Then I went home, got trashed three days, woke up, and was still at home? So I got trashed again, and woke up at home, and got trashed again. So the system broke if you see what I mean. And there was a period of time when the streams crossed a little bit, and that’s the part that I find most problematic, because I played some bad shows, and that is the source of great shame for me because playing good shows is one of the things that I could rely on, both in terms of my living, and my self-esteem. And the fans. The people who pay their money.
FT: ‘Haven’t been Doing so Well’, is another standout on the album, and it addresses mental health issues, which I think will resonate with a lot of people listening to the record or going to the gigs. Have you had any feedback on the song from fans?
FT: Yeah, very much so, my email address is in the public domain, so I get messages all the time, which is great. It’s funny that, it was the last song I wrote for the album. I felt there was something missing from the picture. It’s not a very metaphorical song shall we say, it’s straight down the line. I wrote the whole song in about two hours, which for me, is insane. The one thing I would say about the song, is the line about Mohamed Ali, which I’ve had in my back pocket for about a decade. On my phone and on notepads I have fucking jottings of like one line, two lines. I got to two-thirds of the way through the song, and thought, “Oh shit! It’s found it’s home!.” Maybe I was subconsciously working towards that Line, I don’t know.
If self-loathing was a sport, I’d be Muhamad Ali
Because I can sting like a butterfly, and sink like a bee
But they don’t hand out medals to monsters like me
The nature of song writing generally is, it’s a bit like those magic eye photos if you remember them? You could only really see it, by not looking at it? In a similar war If you try and sit down and write a song that connects with people, then it gonna be bollocks, we all know that it’s going to sound like something manufactured by a marketing department, so you have to write for yourself and hope that afterward that sort of lands with other people. There’s no equation as to how or if it will work or not, you just have to roll the dice, and this time it seems to have landed, so.
FT: It certainly does that! I suppose the most controversial, perhaps if that’s the right word, certainly the most talked-about song will be ‘Miranda’. The real-life story behind the song reads like a film script of a film. The song stands alone as a statement on Trans rights, and identity, but I was also amazed at your generosity of spirit in terms of the emotional abuse you had received from your parent.
FT: We were tracking that Song, and the producer and I had a moment when we were discussing the song. I said something like I obviously have to run it past my mum, or whatever, and he was like ‘What? This is a true thing?’ I was like, ‘Of course, it’s fucking true, I’m not going to make this up’! I’ve talked about this to my close friends, and I’ve actually had a strict rule, up until this record or any other forum, because I wasn’t ready yet, and also I don’t think my family was really yet either. I had some challenging conversations with some members of the family since the song came out. I always used to say, you wouldn’t believe this if it was a film.
It’s funny you use the term ‘Generosity of spirit’ because there is a degree to which the song is aspirational, as much as it is factual. I mean it is factual, but in terms of how I feel about the situation, it’s very much about where I would like to be. In all honesty, I am not always there all the time. I was involved in Trans rights campaigning long before I knew about my dad, there’s never been an issue on that, but someone being Trans, doesn’t stop them being a prick, do you know what I mean? And my dad can be a right prick. She’s a much, much nicer person than she used to be, but we remain parent and child with history, we got crap we can argue about.
At the same time you have to decide what sensibilities, you are going to express in song in terms of producing art, and then of course singing it every fucking night. I’m not saying there’s anything false about the song, but yeah, aspirational is the word. That set of feelings is my target, and I get there about half the time. But I’d rather sing about that, than sing about the days we still have shit that we are slightly uncomfortable about.
FT: But not all of those new positives in the relationship, and improvements in an individual, can be put down to transition? Surely there comes a time in people’s lives when they look back at your mistakes, and in terms of your parent doing that, surely that has a part to play?
FT: Yes I think so! I’m always very careful not to either try and speak on Miranda’s behalf, or to like pop psychanalysis Miranda at a distance. But I do think looking back at my childhood there was someone who wasn’t at peace with themselves. I’ll say that I think that’s fair. So from some angles, it squares a few circles, and for the good, all for the good. It’s an ongoing process shall we say.
FT: Frank, thanks so much for your time, it’s been a real pleasure chatting with you, and the best of luck with the rest of the tour.
FT: Thank you.